Adding Your Site To Webmaster Tools May Reduce Your Rankings

Worth testing it out… will try and do the same to one of my sites and see what happens…

Yeah I’ve done it on my .org which I had chosen to geo-target to the UK (so just removed the geo-target).

Let us know if it makes a difference, it’ll be interesting to see…

BTW am tempted to buy the site to see what happens… Take £150 for it? 😛

Hehe, someone has already offered $400!!!

I reckon if it gets up to where it was before the reserve is met I might cancel the auction…

Interesting findings, I can see how this might happen actually, and this could be something that has to be taken into consideration for a lot of sites if you are wishing to target many countries.

Would be interested to know if you saw any increase in UK rankings when adding to Webmasters tools?

Also would be good to test this theory out on other domains. Might try a few experiments myself.

Your site is automatically geotargeted depending on your TLD.

Regain of traffic was pure coincincide and WMT doesn’t have anything to do with it, i dare you to add it again, you won’t lose any traffic.

Ok Pablo, I don’t think I’ll be re-adding it, I want to see if the traffic keeps on growing.

Have you got any proof of your claim by the way?

Mostly my own experience with .IS (Iceland) domains, i had a couple having 5kuv/day having most of the traffic from US. One of them wasn’t in WMT, when i added it and checked it was geotargeted to Iceland i kinda panicked for a second, but that was normal, nothing happend, site kept on growing normally without any traffic from Iceland.

How long ago was that Pablo?

I have seen this before but reverse, where a less niche site does better due to the targetting. I guess less competition!

Also anyone with adsense rev sites for sale, feel free to get in touch 😉

Cheers
Rob

Interesting observation, but correlation does not imply causation. Maybe some another tests on Cockatiel Care 😉

That’s true, but it was my hypothesis before I deleted the Google Webmasters Tools listing – and the US traffic grew afterwards, implying that there is causation – realistically this would have to be tested on mor .co.uk domains for it to be statistically significant.

But if my traffic gets back to what it was, that’ll be enough proof for me, perhaps not anyone else though.

It would be nice to see examples of other domains, for which a similar phenomenon took place. But this example gives food for thought.

Fascinating! Going to test this too..

Setting up geotargeting in one country will help within the targeting that country, but it shouldn’t cause any negative impact for any other countries.

Perhaps the multiple changes in hosting location caused some of the issues? Let mus know how you get on with it – If you start making some real money I may have to do something similar! 🙂

Cheers
@techseo

Similar experience here.
We had .com domains geo-targeted to different countries, all it did was to reduce the traffic. No better rankings in general or for the locations the geo-target was done.
We did not see any positive effects of GMT geo-targeting. Luckily for us we have .com domains where we can decide the targeting 😉

Maybe it is useful if you like to ban traffic from other places then your own for a shop for instance or to avoid useless visits?

Just noticed, the biggest increase of US traffic has actually been from Google as a referral – so I think this is likely to be Google Images. It could be that Google overlooked images when it comes to country TLD’s unless it is added to GWT?

I’ve searched for “cockatiel care” in Google.com using a US proxy and I’m unable to find cockatielcare.co.uk.

hmm thats strange… I’m wondering if it might rectify that over the coming few days/weeks…

I’ve just searched again and it seems to be there for me now (4th position). Very strange.

Using a different US proxy to the one I used before, it’s not in the first 100.

Peter the drop took a while anyways, so I’m expecting the reverse, a slow steady climb.

Sorry, what I mean is it may take a whlie for GWT to update on all Google’s servers? So perhaps not all of the US will be showing it yet, but I think they will shortly.

What is even stranger is that it ranks for “cockatiel colors” in the U.S.

First things first, from what I read the problem is here:

“I moved the website from Anthony’s hosting which was in Germany (but he’s just told me the week before that it was hosted in the US) to the UK”.

To correct this problem,
Open Google Webmaster Tools, Site Configuration, Settings and set Geographic Target to the United States.

This is because you moved the location of the server and not because of the Google Webmaster Tools.

You blatanty haven’t read this post properly.

1. I moved the site back to the United States after the drop.
2. You can’t set the Geographic Target with a .co.uk, it sets it to the United Kingdom and there isn’t an option to change it.

Never even suspected that such a thing can happen. Gotta try this for Bulgarian domains, with GWT. Thanks for the insight!

I am with Pablo,

To prove your hypothesis you need to add it to GWT again otherwise it is still just speculation.

1 test is not enough to make your hypothesis a proven fact.

IMHO you made to many changes to accurately determine which was the cause or solution.

Fair enough, the traffic hasn’t recovered fully anyway, which is why I put “may reduce your rankings” not “definitely reduces your rankings”.

Unfortunately at this rate I don’t think I’ll get the chance to test it out as I haven’t got time, the auction ends in 10 days.

I’d want to wait 6 weeks to see if the traffic fully recovers properly and then obviously I’d have removed it and seen if there was another difference. Realistically though, I think you would need to do it with more than one .co.uk to make it a robust test.

I’ll see how it goes over the next 10 days, if it doesn’t go up significantly, I won’t remain convinced.

Interesting story, but I’m in the correlation camp. I agree with the folks above that you should reapply GWT to see what happens. I do understand why you may not want to do it now.

The other part I’m confused about is you say:

————–
“I *think* I added the website to Google Webmasters Tools – it appeared Anthony had never gotten round to doing this (he literally had done nothing with it)”
————–

Does this mean you’re unsure of the timing?

Actually Anne I wasn’t sure, I was going on memory/emails, but I’ve just thought of a way to find out and it seems I added it to Google Webmasters Tools towards the end of December: “The preferred domain for your site has changedDecember 21, 2010”

I’ll update the post to reflect that. I still think that the same possibility is feasible, but I think I’d need more time and testing to be sure, unfortunately I don’t. But I thought I could raise this issue and that maybe other people could test it and see.

It seems it concerns Google Referral rather than Google Organic, so it might be something to do with the Google Image search.

Updated the blog post, perhaps I’m not looking at this objectively. Everyone here seemed to think there was a possible correlation – hopefully someone else can run a better test. It does seem that I’m not totally alone though.

Have you got a .co.uk domain name? If you don’t then you may be biased in your reasoning… I think you have to be in the UK to really appreciate the effect of this. I realise someone mentioned about Iceland, but the fact is Iceland doesn’t share the English language, which may make the UK/Australia/US unique in this respect. If an Icelandic site is written in English, it is most likely for an English market and so wouldn’t be targeted to Iceland, which is why he didn’t get any traffic.

So perhaps they target stuff based on language and only target stuff based on geographic once you add it to GWT? Or perhaps they only target Google Image search based on geo-targeting once you add it to GWT?

I don’t really know the answer, but it is worthy of a test for those in the UK and Australia, probably not so much if you are in the US.

Interesting findings, worth trying. I’ll test it with one of my .com.ar (Argentina) domains and see whats happens.

In real sense, this is just superstition. David, you are indicating many things that is more suspect-able than Google Webmaster. e.g. Moving host, it does influence traffic a lot. I have heard complains from Bangladeshi site owners that their site has mostly UK visitors, since their site is hosted there.

Moving to US is a good choice, since the Internet Population is high there and Google seem to be biased with US hosting.

You are also mentioning the use of Google Analytics. Then why not blame Google Analytics, instead? This also can be a good correlation.

When Rony is saying that link building is not needed. Then could it be that he already did link building of the site using Xumer and other Blackhat tactics or hired someone who said will increase his traffic, which can make his site sell at good price. I am not blaming Rony for playing tricks, rather he also can be a victim. You also really need to know the history of the site.

If Blackhat is used, then the traffic you are seeing now is actually the real traffic. And the previous huge traffic is actually artificial. Moreover, the increase in traffic can also be coincidental.

Interesting thought. I will test this on my .co.uk domain to see what effect it had on traffic.

I think it is more than just the webmaster tools install. I think it comes down to a combination of items that occurred at one time. I have a feeling there might be more weight to shifting servers than anything else.

Hi Dave,

Very interesting. I had a not too dissimilar experience only last week and have been scratching my head over it. Took on a new client and had done lots of prep but nothing that could possibly have affected rankings or traffic. And yet, I noticed that the ranking for the main keyword target had moved from 44 to 16 two days after I added the .co.uk (UK hosted) domain to GWT. Too soon to spot changes in traffic which is quite low anyway due to niche. No other changes were made. Obviously I don’t know the history of the ranking but the site has been in situ for many years and client confirmed he thought I must have started work last week because he noticed the improvements in rankings. Any thoughts on that? Coincidence or significant?

I’ve replicated this many times.

I have a new site, one or two months old…

Place it in Webmaster tools, traffic drops within days to 75% of previous levels.

I’ve taken out a domain and the traffic levels rise 25-40%, although this takes about 4 weeks.

Currently testing this theory on 7 websites. Will known within a week if it’s true. It seems to take about 4 weeks for rankings to return.

interestingly, if you delete a site, and take out the authentication method, GWT puts the site back in asking if you want to ‘authenticate it’. Once you delete it the second time it doesn’t return.

I have a theory that the ranking algo is different for sites in Webmaster tools. I’ve seen dramatic shifts in both traffic levels and keyword rankings within days of placing sites in WMT. It’s about time someone with some clout addressed this. My findings have gone on deaf ears.

Not any more! I think you realistically have to be in the UK or Australia to see the kind of thing we’re talking about. Everyone else just seems to pass it off as SEO bullshit, but it really isn’t.

The fact is you won’t experience this in the US, so they won’t see it/understand it.

Okay so just to confirm what you’re saying – ONLY domains whose TLD’s which are NOT geo-neutral have this problem, correct?

As in .com, .net, .org – they allow you to specify (or not specify) targeting in WMT. Therefore you don’t have this issue. However, adding a geo-specific TLD to webmaster tools auto-selects that country/region?

If so, then this has always been the case – and therefore, by targeting a given Google TLD/location, you are in essense NOT targeting other Google domains / geo-searches. This makes perfect sense as to why traffic (by way of dropped rankings) dropped.

I think as a whole, if you hope to target international rankings with your domain, make it a geo-neutral TLD. You have to go so much further to make a .co.uk to rank well in the US. If you somehow find a way to do that, I guess the lesson is, do everything you can NOT to indicate to google that it’s a UK entity – as in don’t add it to webmaster tools 🙂

Hey Ari,

That’s correct.

And you are right about really I should have a GEO neutral domain, perhaps I should have just bought one instead!

Interesting read!

What I’m dying to know is, if and how your UK rankings & Traffic where affected.

Plus you don’t wanna risk adding GWT for another drop in traffic / income. For the test I’m more than happy to compensate you a months worth of income of £20-30. I think lots of people want to see you replicate the situation 🙂

The UK rankings / traffic was unchanged.

I would do what people asked, but I’m selling it at the moment, and the traffic hasn’t increased to where it was yet either, so I’d prefer to see what happens.

It may not sell, in which case I’ll wait a month and then do what you suggest and add it back to GWT.

Is that true? I don’t believe it..

It needs testing really

I have heard rumours about this and so have avoided adding one of my sites too google webmaster tools. Until recently. And guess what! Traffic has dropped off a cliff. Serves me right for giving in.
Tempted to delete them all – I know how well they’re doing from how much money comes in.

When I finished reading the article I’m surprised if that is true, then who dare to use Google administrator tools? How do we go to find some of the problems of web site

An interesting post. Surprised at the level of negativity you’ve got in the comments. Seems to me that you were just putting out details of your example. You admit it is only one site and that you changed a number of other factors so it is not a definitive test.

Cheers Blaine, I think people misunderstand or don’t read the post.

Great post David

Please let me know if you’re on Twitter I couldn’t find a handle for you either here or on your website.

Really interested to know how this pans out, please let me know if there have been any more changes.

I have interacted with a lot of forum folks that are against both GA and GWT mainly as they are highly sceptical re; Google. I have never seen a drop with such implementations.

I have however seen sites change server / domain and have a period where their traffic / rankings have dropped temporarily for 4-ish weeks.

Would be great to repeat the test a few times to rule out it being a coincidence.

Please keep us updated!

🙂

Hey Steve,

I’m not using Twitter much any more, if you want to connect I suggest Google +.

Here’s the link to mine: http://goo.gl/DjqnH

Nice and interesting post David.

It is really a strange matter. I have a .com domain and I’ll test on this. Let’s see what happen.

I’ve been playing with this myself as I’d kind of got suspicious.

I have 3 domains, all .com

Website ‘a’ is a couple of years old and has a steady stream of traffic mainly from the US
Website ‘b’ is a couple of months old receiving traffic, again from the US
Website ‘c’ is brand new

Website ‘a’ I haven’t touched the content at all
Website ‘b’ I built, optimised and submitted to all the major search engines a couple of months ago. I have traffic counting software installed on it and could see that each day traffic grew until I was getting a nice amount of traffic each day.

Website ‘c’ I built, optimised and submitted to all the search engines in exactly the same way as website ‘b’.

Then, I decided to register them all with google webmaster tools, with all three set to US traffic.

Website ‘a’ and Website ‘b’ traffic has disappeared completely and Website ‘c’ has never received traffic.
I don’t know whether it’s Panda or GWT, but I’ve taken site ‘c’ off GWT to see if it starts to pick up any extra traffic…I’ll let you know how it goes 🙂

Salli, I’m not sure you got the point in this blog post. It was about country specific TLD’s such as .us, .co.uk and .fr – not .com’s

Yes, I did get the point. But, I was offering up something along similar lines that I had noticed which may or may not add fuel to the fire as far as other people were concerned. Sometimes you have to have an open mind to discover the root cause of something, otherwise you’ll just end up chasing your tail.

You’re doing a test that is essentially pointless as far as I’m concerned Salli

Sorry I took the time to post…I won’t bother again

Yes that was David’s point… he wasn’t stating anything as fact and was being open minded about it. The whole reason for the post was just an observation he made which opened something up as a possibility… however, your test is not relevant to the observation that he made.

Hi David,

How can you really delete a WMT listing? I deleted a site of mine and then decided to add it back a few weeks later. My WMT account showed me the exact data of the site, including for the time it wasn’t listed anymore.

It seems that WMT keeps remembering this site regardless of whether it’s listed or not.

Jonathan

Hi Jonathan

Google have that data whether you delete it or not, so if its the first time you add it they have it already – so yes, you can really delete a WMT listing, but you can’t delete the data behind that listing thats created regardless of whether you ever create a listing or not.

Thanks David,

It stands to reason, as I don’t place any code on my site. The only reason I would want to not have a WMT account is that some people say that it gets more scrutiny, often of the crazy kind, by goolge employees. I’m not just talking about geo issues.

Is this something you or your clients also experience. Do you recommend having an WMT account or deleting it? And what about analytics?

I’d recommend having a WMT account and having a GA account. It’s up to you really though!

This scenario was a UK based domain that lost US traffic after being added to WMT, it really was quite specific and it was also a theory that has yet to be proven.

Here’s my experience of the “popular” Google Webmaster Tools. On my blog I was getting 5000+ unique visitors from all over the world. And I don’t like to see any traffic coming from countries like India, China, Philippines, Pakistan, etc. That sort of traffic is simply crap. So I thought, let’s geotarget it to the US market in WMT. So I did. The traffic dropped to only 1500 unique visitors a day. Well, if I were getting 1500 visitors from the US only, I would’ve loved it. But same sort of crap … traffic from all over the world, specially, those useless places that won’t convert. Its been two months and I’m seeing this crap traffic from crap places. My question is, is this Google Webmaster Tools Geotargeting a “PIECE OF CRAP”? Is it a freagin gimmick? I don’t expect to see this sort of shit from a company of that scale. Had it been YaBing, I wouldn’t give a rat’s ass. But HEY! It’s the GOOGLE!
Yeah, I’m pissed off because I f***ing care about my blog!

Wow, I submitted a genuine comment and it was removed. Thank you webmaster. If you want me to put things in sugar coated words, then be it. I think Google WMT geotargeting is just a gimmick. Nothing more, nothing less.

Oh well, my older comment didn’t appear but now it shows when I left the second comment … Sigh! Guess I’m just getting too mad at this geotargeting thing and going nuts about losing all that traffic. Please delete these two new comments. Sorry for being mad at the webmaster.

This happened to my site also.

I purchased the site for 750$

First month traffic is 60k pageviews. After adding it to webmaster tools, if fell down to 200 page views per day.

100% agree. We have noticed a similar thing.
Adding to WMT reduced our traffic to 50% of what it was originally.

Adding geotargetting to thousands of subdomains almost killed it to 25%.

Our conclusion is: a generic domain with a subdomain for Canada will show up higher in search results with the proper ‘canadian’ keywords as long as it is NOOOT geotargetted for Canada. If you geotarget that subdomain to Canada, you have hit on your own foot.
So much for following Google’s Protocol.

clever title but very very misleading. I was about to remove my websites from GWT until I read the whole post 🙂

Adding Your Site To Webmaster Tools May Reduce Your Rankings

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