ok this shouldn’t be rocket science.
when I read stuff like this I just had to shake my head :
“PPC is not, in my opinion, a long term strategy for website promotion - but I know that bites some people. I base my opinion on my own experience - I would use PPC as a short term quick wins, but the long term strategy is always organic positions.”
I totally disagree … Everything in this world costs !
A quick run down of a long story, a Good friend worked for a client that believed that traffic from search should be FREE, that wasn’t an issue for like me at the time we only dealt in organic traffic , so he got paid quite well, but here was the thing one of their competitors want my services for months, they had wine and dined me at conferences, talked PPC, content and link budgets and they want to win at all cost. I told me friend he should drop his client.
The crunch came when the client was ask for more money on a link buying exercise, the telephone conservation didn’t last long, and end with what am I paying you for ! … erm Consultancy I guess, I think it took 6 months for that company to go bust, the other company is a market lead still today
So ..
If he budgeted correctly, he could have switched at a PPC campaign to regain the traffic he lost when they got ban for STUPID LINK BUYING!! 
( still makes me smile when I go to wunderground ), How can you run a business without people seeing you merchandise
PPC, if done properly and tracked, can be a winner for most businesses with a decent business and website.
However, I believe that totally relying on PPC should be avoided.
Ideally a smart on line business should be looking at marketing in every channel to ensure they’re getting the biggest slice of the Market.whether it’s Banner ads, PPC or organic as long has you maintain you profit margins in each sector you will be fine.
For new sites PPC is is the best way to kick your business. But don’t forget basic SEO, the ideal situation is to have a marketing budget, and slowly gain good organic traffic, once you start seeing organic results move budgets for PPC to SEO, this way if things do go wrong you can switch back the budgets. I feel the best fit is when Organic SEO, Banners, PPC and Off line marketing is pushed into one budget and measured on ROI for the total spend. although it can create a black box for the client I guess..
Daven
18 Comments
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12th February 2008 @ 11:52
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Totally agree, PPC is an invaluable route to market. Decisions should be made on ROI adn Profile, not just on Cost.
12th February 2008 @ 12:12
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It is proven that a percentage of searchers have already decided they are going to click on a sponsored result before they have hit the ‘Search’ button. Doesn’t matter if you hold all of the top ten positions for a query, if you don’t have a PPC ad then you have lost that users click.
12th February 2008 @ 13:27
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You are right that PPC shouldn’t be entirely discounted. It is extremely responsive and can provide cheap, targeted clicks, if applied in the right circumstances. It’s not usually a strong longterm investment for competitive keywords though.
But all of this pales into insignificance after seeing your strapline: “can’t beat a good rank”. Awesome.
12th February 2008 @ 13:36
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Why would anyone not run a PPC campaign if it is managed properly and actually providing a positive ROI? That’s business, invest in marketing to produce a profit…and what targeted marketing it is!
In addition, with the analytical tools available today, PPC provides critical info which can be used in ongoing SEO. What better way to brand build and get two bites of the cherry than have well positioned ads running alongside high organic rankings. Perfect!
13th February 2008 @ 09:16
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PPC is only good for a short term investment nothing can compare to natural listings, while you wait for natural listings to come to fruition use PPC but as soon as your on the first page scrap it, it can be too costly and will not return half the results of organic seo,
13th February 2008 @ 12:25
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> it can be too costly and will not return half the results of organic seo,
Yes, but it may also provide a nice profit. Most PPC-campaigns do in fact. And why say no to more profits? Even if the profits are half of what I get from organic I still want them!
13th February 2008 @ 14:51
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How can someone possibly think that PPC is not a long-term strategy? Even if you hold top organic positions, I still recommend bidding on the term, but perhaps a bit lower than if you didn’t hold a high organic position. If anything, it gives you an additional chance to catch the searcher’s attention.
Mikkel deMib Svendsen is right, too. Even if profits are lower than organic, they’re still profits. If something comes along that returns better then you shift funds, but in the meantime take the extra volume.
14th February 2008 @ 01:21
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I fell into the PPC trap a few years ago, we had good organic results and then I thought what if ?? I ramped up PPC over a couple of years and started making tons of money only to lose my organic results becasue PPC was just so easy.. Then clicks started getting real expensive and google was pretty much squeezing that part of the business dry because I’ve ignored the organics. Now we are back at the start, working on organic as I’ve had a gutfull of adwords “disabling” my business, at some point I hope to find a balance.
14th February 2008 @ 05:24
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Dave. I know where that quote from. Why don’t you admit you’re a secret UK Net Marketing mailing list lurker, but rewritting someone elses comments and claiming them as your own is a bit sad.
For anyone who doesn’t subscribe to UKNM http://www.chinwag.com , it is onw of the most active UK marketing chat lists, and here is the original post in its true form from John Braithwaite:
———–
I totally disagree with this position…ANY marketing that is providing decent profit margin should be considered. PPC,
for me, if done properly, can be a winner for almost ANY business with a decent
consumer/business proposition and website build.However, I do believe that total reliance on PPC should be avoided.
Ideally a smart online business (or offline business using online to drive
opportunity) should be looking at optimizing EVERY channel to ensure they’re
getting the biggest slice of opportunity pie. Where the profit margin is 20%+,
then it should be retained - even if SEO and other channels are also doing well.Let’s get one thing straight - everything COSTS money and, in my opinion, some
forget that SEO’s charge… money and sometimes for very little short-term
return. Don’t forget to factor their costs into this!!For new sites PPC is the sure-fire way to get off to a flying start. But don’t
forget SEO, get it right and in due course you should be able to ramp up traffic
there too. SEO outlay will take a medium-long time to even match the equivalent
in PPC (i.e. total spend/attributable visits), particularly if you ignore (as
you should) the brand name of the business.John Braithwaite
Ergo Digital - Marketing Through Technology
——————14th February 2008 @ 10:55
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Teddie it came from here :
HI John,
>I totally disagree with this position…>ANY marketing that is providing decent profit margin should be considered.
PPC,
>for me, if done properly, can be a winner for almost ANY business with
>a
decent
>consumer/business proposition and website build.>However, I do believe that total reliance on PPC should be avoided.
>Ideally a smart online business (or offline business using online to
>drive
>opportunity) should be looking at optimizing EVERY channel to ensure
they’re
>getting the biggest slice of opportunity pie. Where the profit margin
>is
20%+,
>then it should be retained - even if SEO and other channels are also
>doing
well.
I know that my comment about PPC not being a long term strategy bites some people - you are not the first to disagree.
I should probably further clarify my statement re ppc though.I have found over the years that PPC is many times offered to clients as a longer / long term strategy because the people on the project do not know or do not want to know or learn how to optimise organically for the same range of words or phrases to reduce costs, and so would rather buy their positions through PPC because it’s a definite win / instant gratification / box ticked.
I have also seen many people carrying out PPC when they really shouldn’t - running up huge bills unnecessarily because they don’t understand how and when to use PPC to get the best results.
The problem with PPC is that when your budget runs out, your site drops off the engines, and for competitive phrases those marketing beacons can go out quick! Factor in on top of that, the click fraud potentials and it becomes less appealing by the minute - for me at least.
I would use and have used PPC as a short term quick wins, to launch a new site or where information was time sensitive and the organic positioning would have taken longer - maybe losing out on vital initial days/weeks where the site could have been being promoted.
I hear what you say about any channel/marketing strategy making a profit over 20%+ should be retained. I am not sure I would agree with you on a blanket basis for all sites, but your opinion is your prerogative and of course if your or my clients don’t like such opinions, they will undoubtedly vote with their feet.
A 20%+ profit margin is acceptable to some - and indeed many might be happy with that as a cut off point.
I don’t like to set minimum limits for what is acceptable for more than one site at a time as I find it more effective to judge on a site by site basis, developing a whole marketing strategy tailored specifically to the business and the budget the client wishes to spend. Business needs, performance levels and acceptable profit margins are rarely the same across different businesses and so your minimum might work for one client, but cripple another.I tend to focus on how to reap maximum rewards for minimum cost long term, so 20% profit wouldn’t be enough for me to justify PPC as a long term option to my clients. I also begrudge paying PPC costs for phrases I know I could get to the top of the engines organically - but that’s just me - I am a miser when it comes to advising my clients to spend money on anything
Yes SEO costs money, but I have yet to find my work costs to be anywhere close to the cost of the average agency budget for PPC. I cant speak for other SEO people’s charges of course, only my own, but it seems some agencies / experts / optimisers sell SEO as if it were snake oil / rocket science / brain surgery and charge accordingly. I find honesty the best policy - its what’s kept me busy working for the past 12 years in this industry with little or no advertising. SEO needn’t be expensive, and it is not rocket science. Anyone can do it if they have the time, knowledge *and* the inclination.Maybe I offer a different service to other SEOs, I don’t know, because I train my customers how to optimise and maintain their own SEO through mentoring, and this then further reduces their third party costs because they build up their own skills to manage their own sites. This is not only cheaper than the average PPC budget, but very cost effective long term, allowing for much higher profit margins to be achieved. It also gives them the tools and know how to continue with SEO if and when budgets get tight and costs need to be cut.
If only some of those big agency PPC budgets were more carefully / thoughtfully spent - part on effective SEO and more on optimising landing pages, calls to action and pathways through the website to conversion - maybe clients would/could come to expect more of the “opportunity pie” you mention. (or maybe therein lies the problem for some agencies
I don’t
know.)What I have seen though is that far too many sites are promoted via PPC, under the illusion that traffic will bring customers - it wont - it will bring *visitors*. What you do with those visitors once you have them will be what makes your profit margin not PPC or SEO etc. Many sites being promoted via PPC have little or no chance of actually converting most/all of those expensive click-thru’s from visitor to customer.
Better budget allocation and development priorities to improve conversions rates of visitor to customer *before* SEO, expensive PPC and/or other site promotion is used, would be the strategy I would always advise for my clients. But hey ho, but that takes us way off topic and is a whole ‘nother gripe of mine so I will now shut up!
Sam MignanoBeyond Metrix Ltd ~ evolving business online ~ http://www.beyondmetrix.com
Usability, Accessibility, Validation, Best Practice, SEO and online marketing.
Need help with your website? Call us now for a free website audit consultation. 08456 44 88 54
A UK registered limited company. Company Registration Number: 5734561. VAT registration number 891 2460 17
—–Original Message—–
From: uk-netmarketing@lists.chinwag.com
[mailto:uk-netmarketing@lists.chinwag.com] On Behalf Of John Braithwaite
Sent: 11 February 2008 18:00
To: Sam Mignano
Subject: RE:[uk-netmarketing] In-House/Web Agency vs Specialist SEOI totally disagree with this position…
ANY marketing that is providing decent profit margin should be considered.
PPC,
for me, if done properly, can be a winner for almost ANY business with a decent consumer/business proposition and website build.However, I do believe that total reliance on PPC should be avoided.
Ideally a smart online business (or offline business using online to drive
opportunity) should be looking at optimizing EVERY channel to ensure they’re getting the biggest slice of opportunity pie. Where the profit margin is 20%+, then it should be retained - even if SEO and other channels are also doing well.Let’s get one thing straight - everything COSTS money and, in my opinion, some forget that SEO’s charge… money and sometimes for very little short-term return. Don’t forget to factor their costs into this!!
For new sites PPC is the sure-fire way to get off to a flying start. But don’t forget SEO, get it right and in due course you should be able to ramp up traffic there too. SEO outlay will take a medium-long time to even match the equivalent in PPC (i.e. total spend/attributable visits), particularly if you ignore (as you should) the brand name of the business.
John Braithwaite
Ergo Digital - Marketing Through Technologyw: http://www.ergodigital.com
e: john@ergodigital.com
osn: Linkedin & Facebookt: +44 (0)20 7043 2617
m: +44 (0)7977 272752
f: +44 (0)7092 008130
Office: Orchard House, Broad Leaze, Hook, Hampshire, RG27 9PF[ Ergo >] “PPC is not, in my opinion, a long term strategy for website promotion
- but I know that bites some people. I base my opinion on my own experience
- I
would use PPC as a short term quick wins, but the long term strategy is always organic positions.”~~~~ Rate Our Strategy and Win an 8Gb iPod Touch ~~~~ Chinwag have teamed up with UK Trade and Investment to help assess their UK ICT Marketing Strategy. It’s a rare opportunity for the digital industry to have a say in the way - the government spends our money and promotes our industry abroad.
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http://www.chinwag.com/uk-netmarketing14th February 2008 @ 11:29
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which is a much bigger chinwag email,and so what if I read Chinwag, I read the BBC as well and some Of my comments fall into line with their Bloggers has some of my comments fall into line with John’s …
erm cause I agree with most of what he was saying ??
DaveN
14th February 2008 @ 11:37
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and last but not least, it would be a bit sad if carried on till SES where we are on the same panel, wouldn’t want you to copy my comments or anything
DaveN14th February 2008 @ 11:39
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Dave, it’s good know you read Chinwag, and would be cool if you joined in the discussion every now and again
I know that’s where it came from as I pointed out, would just be good if you actually referenced your sources in these situations, rather than just shuffling the sentences around, adding a few words and claiming it as your own. I also agree with Johns comments, hence why I’d made a mental note of them. We just need to persuade Sam to put hurry up and put that Chinwag archive online.See you at SES.
14th February 2008 @ 12:42
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Thanks for the citation. It’s always nice to see the original post on the lists mentioned in coverage. It’d be nice if some of the trade magazines took the same approach (you know who you are
Fair cop on the archive though. It is definitely in our plans sooner rather than later. As it turns out, there’s quite a bit of work to it, but I appreciate it’s been rather a long while.Hope to see you guys at SES.
Oh, and if anyone is after the direct link to sign-up for uk-netmarketing - which covers all aspects of online marketing there’s a subscription form here: http://www.chinwag.com/lists/uk-netmarketing
14th February 2008 @ 15:22
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Is it fair to say that over time we are going to find it harder and harder to get the free organic traffic? I’m a much better SEO than I was even 12 months ago but it’s getting very crowded at the top of the charts and the big social sites are taking a greater chunk of the overall traffic. It’s not in Google’s best interests to have potential PPC clients mastering SEO / organic traffic so they need to keep shifting the posts although I think sheer volume is doing the job for them anyway. I know my first reaction to a drop in organic search rankings was always to run to my adwords account to try and take up the slack…
18th February 2008 @ 01:16
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I agree with what you say, but I also think the short term testing of new products lines is a big winner with PPC.
With the almost real time results you can get to test keywords for SEO makes PPC a short term winner.
4th March 2008 @ 18:53
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Honestly, PPC is only effective if you make more than you spend, sounds simple I know. But if you think about it, it all depends on the internal structure of the company and its ability to make a profit. For example I had once known a small service company owner who had so much overhead that he couldnt make PPC profitable. When I later entered the same business, and used PPC to get instant customers, was able to make it profitable because I didnt have the overhead to pay for that he did.
So when its all said and done PPC only makes sense if you bring in more than you pay out. If your paying out more, really you need to change the internal structure of your company to make it profitable.
The bids on PPC are pretty much constant, so you know other companies out there are making them profitable right?
23rd September 2008 @ 10:04
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Nice read. And I agree with your views about it a little bit. I also prefer organic for long term strategy…